tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post5183366868044797519..comments2024-03-29T02:07:58.747-07:00Comments on Get a Life, PhD: Is Having a Stay-at-Home Spouse the Secret to Academic Success?Tanya Golash-Bozahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-70213153794288180302012-09-12T17:57:08.438-07:002012-09-12T17:57:08.438-07:00I actually disagree that the more hours you put in...I actually disagree that the more hours you put in if you work in the lab sciences the better.I think that's falling into the same trap that many academics do, ie the busier, more harried and more stressed I am the more successful I am. As an experimental physicist I think the same approach as Tanya is suggesting can be extremely useful. Careful planning, know what is possible to get done, and when you need a break you need a break. If you get too tired it's really easy To make silly mistakes, wasting your own time and time on equipment. Whereas if your fresh your more likely to be productive,make good decisions, have energy to analyse data etc. also considering current research, working through problems and coming up with valid solutions are extremely mentally tiring and to me seem very similar to many parts of Tanya's day. Irish physicisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08863254007542524373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-7077971412367423562012-08-21T17:54:24.024-07:002012-08-21T17:54:24.024-07:00When I was a grad student in the US, a prominent s...When I was a grad student in the US, a prominent scholar in my field, a married man with a stay at home wife and no children, advised a group of us to avoid having children at all costs if we wanted to make names for ourselves as scholars! It was too late for me, as I already had one child when I began and two before I finished my PhD. It's not as if it is unfair for people to have a stay at home spouse. It's a choice people make. Making a career your priority and marrying someone else who does the same, that's a choice with consequences, just as are staying single, marrying and having no children, or marrying someone who is not concerned with a career. The unfairness occurs if gender itself limits options for one spouse. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-69182760996410523642012-05-25T12:06:38.478-07:002012-05-25T12:06:38.478-07:00Good help is really hard to find, especially if yo...Good help is really hard to find, especially if you don't have someone with the mental space to figure out who to hire.nicoleandmaggiehttp://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-73193111450415846392012-05-24T08:35:20.694-07:002012-05-24T08:35:20.694-07:00I've really enjoyed your blog - and it has def...I've really enjoyed your blog - and it has definitely been helpful, and in some cases hopeful. I'm finishing up my PhD in the social sciences right now and my partner is finishing his up in engineering - I'm finding the situation to be both depressing and disheartening. My program offered little guidance and the community has devolved over the years to the point where it seems few of us are prepared after graduation (including me, as I am finding out) and none of us graduating have job prospects for the fall, even those who graduated last year are still on the search for full time employment...But I digress from the topic of this post. It's been very enlightening because my partner and I have been trying to figure out our next move. It has been difficult to find academic positions in 2 very different areas in the same general location. He is already employed in a steady job and has the ability to change institutions fairly easily and command a significantly higher salary than I would in the socials sciences, but I'm having difficulty in accepting the reality that if we want a family it might make much more practical sense for *me* to who stay at home and provide auxiliary support by only working part time (which seems to be the only work I've been able to get so far). <br /><br />Enough rambling! Suffice to say, I agree, it makes more sense in this day and age to have one spouse stay at home - I just wish I didn't have to be me!jesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519710971221936542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-14032640411418801692012-05-24T00:03:00.892-07:002012-05-24T00:03:00.892-07:00I think they´re right. 2 full time jobs = 2 people...I think they´re right. 2 full time jobs = 2 people with high stress and while it´s more money, you still have to manage the tasks and there isn´t enough flexible time. Those semi employed spouses can really save $ just by what doesn´t have to be spent to maintain their high level career, and by what, between the two of you, doesn´t have to be hired out. Some of them even keep kitchen gardens, too. It´s a very good deal from a business p.o.v.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-58672854277880723352012-05-23T06:18:15.166-07:002012-05-23T06:18:15.166-07:00Thanks for clarifying that. It has become clear to...Thanks for clarifying that. It has become clear to me that perhaps hard/lab scientists do have to work more than 40 hours a week to be productive. Between lab work and managing labs, and meetings, the hours add up.Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-14581138009685767122012-05-23T06:16:37.046-07:002012-05-23T06:16:37.046-07:00Xela: The answer to that question is "sort of...Xela: The answer to that question is "sort of." When we lived in Peru, it seemed to be expected that we would have household help, so we did ... especially after I tried to wash the sheets in the river by myself. For the year we lived there, we had a person who cooked, cleaned, and watched the kids for us.<br /><br />And, I have had two research assistants, one who went above and beyond the call of duty on her own, and one who was practically useless.<br /><br />I agree about the management of household tasks and how you can't just farm that out. <br /><br />As they say in Peru, it is hard to find good help ;)Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-42974109015069126532012-05-23T05:42:32.466-07:002012-05-23T05:42:32.466-07:00Wow. Thanks for all of your comments. As for my ow...Wow. Thanks for all of your comments. As for my own work schedule, yes, it is true, I generally have between 8am and 6pm, Monday to Friday, to work. I don't work the full 50 hours as I use that time to exercise, have meals, and spend time with my husband, but do get in about 40 hours of work a week.<br /><br />It still is impressive to me that most of you think you would be better off with one income if the other spouse would be willing to stay home.Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-79336652918137321182012-05-23T05:08:28.457-07:002012-05-23T05:08:28.457-07:00Agree with Anonymous May 22 9:54pm. I've been ...Agree with Anonymous May 22 9:54pm. I've been telling my working husband that I need a stay at home wife for years...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-89602486353925215332012-05-22T21:54:06.175-07:002012-05-22T21:54:06.175-07:00I really enjoy your blogs, and I have to admit, I ...I really enjoy your blogs, and I have to admit, I found myself asking "how does she do it with three kids?" She is INCREDIBLY productive! What am I doing wrong? I have put some of your suggestions about writing into practice, but I never feel like I have enough time in the day. Then I read this post, and said, Now I understand! That's her secret! I knew that somebody, whether it was a spouse, grandparent, or someone else, had to be staying at home in order for everything to work. Having a stay a home spouse beats extra research money and a reduced course load ANYDAY and if you have all of those things, you are golden. What you then have is a lot of time, not just to write, but to think, to focus, to write a short paragraph rather than a grocery list; to read a book rather than run baths and prepare food. I have a four year old daughter and by the time I put her down for bed, after making dinner, bathing her, and all the other good stuff, I am wiped out. My husband is not an academic and works full time as well. I always said, "if only I had a stay at home wife." So really be thankful for your good luck. Without your husband staying home, I must say that your productivity would likely look very different right now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-50502482086939976632012-05-22T14:01:10.138-07:002012-05-22T14:01:10.138-07:00sorry for all the typos/grammatical errors! I wrot...sorry for all the typos/grammatical errors! I wrote this while making dinner ;)Lilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-55221036498576598962012-05-22T13:58:06.515-07:002012-05-22T13:58:06.515-07:00I guess this is a hot button issue! I think that d...I guess this is a hot button issue! I think that different people, different couples, and different situations make for a different recipes for success. I have a husband also faculty member, and 2 little kids--it's our first year with both kids in public school. We both have tenure. But we were able to do it with two very little ones, an 8 year long-distance marriage (one year with a toddler who was staying with me), and lots of moves before we finally landed TT jobs at the same institution. Our productivity was fine but I guess it could have been better--esp. since I didn't know your blog, Tanya! But the question that matters to me mostly is 'are you happy with your life?' and my answer is that yes, I am. Now regarding the roles in the family, my husband will do everything I ask him to do but he will not take charge. For instance, he'll cook if I ask him, but I have to decide the menu. So I do spend some part of my time organizing our life, and I am now used to it and it doesn't take me that long any more but it does take a while to come up with a working routine. I now almost automatically plan weekly menus because I cook and I believe in the importance of a healthy home cooked meal. Also I believe in a tidy household, so I hire a housekeeper once a week. Other than that, we do everything else ourselves. Of course in our case it helps that we are both academics and our schedules are flexible. If I have an evening meeting, my husband can pick up the kids etc. If the kids are sick, usually between the two of us we can figure it out, although the kids don't really get sick any more like they used to. When the kids were really little, I had a wonderful older woman who was able to help me whenever I needed (my our own family lives in a different country). Of course I paid her--and in terms of $$-- which a lot of people talked about--it did put a huge dent in our finances. For ex., 13 years out of grad school, we still have our grad school furniture, so we can afford some help and to travel to my home country every summer. So I think it's a matter of priorities and you need to set your priorities and then the family life and your career will follow along these lines.Lilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-70705010585915535792012-05-22T12:44:59.813-07:002012-05-22T12:44:59.813-07:00You make an excellent distinction between "re...You make an excellent distinction between "responsibilities" and "tasks" and therein lies the rub.!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-77170760051078877832012-05-22T11:31:51.954-07:002012-05-22T11:31:51.954-07:00You might be able to work 40 hours per week (from ...You might be able to work 40 hours per week (from one of your blog post), but in some fields, you need to put in way more than that. This is especially true of the hard/lab sciences. The more hours you put in the lab, the more productive you are as a researcher... don't ask me how/why, I can't really explain it.<br /><br />When you have a working spouse and kids... You have to curtail your work hours, doesn't matter if you can afford extra childcare or not... or your kids will end up spending most of their times with babysitters/nannies. Perhaps you can arrange alternating working late with your spouse... but you're still curtailing your work hours.<br /><br />And also... even if you can afford eating out on most nights with dual income (I don't think a lot of dual-income couples can do this anyway), do you really want your kids to be eating out to fatty restaurant food every night? Nope, you still cook on most nights.<br /><br />I agree with Xela. I think perhaps you are underestimating the amount of work your husband does for you at the home front. <br /><br />Sorry, love your other entries though...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-88097115020473407182012-05-22T11:23:56.453-07:002012-05-22T11:23:56.453-07:00we actually never could afford to outsource childc...we actually never could afford to outsource childcare fully and taught alternate days and obv didn't write on the days we were at home with kids probably the clearest example of how our careers "suffered" from two TT parents. )ddly enough in the major metro areas of the US there are SO MANY DARN ph.d.s that yes professor/post-doc work can be QUITE low paying as crazy as that seems. In my case I gave up position with equal $ to solve 2 body problem, so I suppose you could say we prioritized being geographically together over $. I know other academic couples have made decisions to live apart, in effect being part time single parentsfeMOMhisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192104351023271207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-23494828008453092442012-05-22T10:24:52.860-07:002012-05-22T10:24:52.860-07:00Interesting question. Unless you are very wealthy ...Interesting question. Unless you are very wealthy and decide to hire a small cadre of live-in workers who stay with your household for years and years (or live outside the US where such an arrangement is more normal), I don't think you can outsource responsibility, just tasks. And I think that's where the difference lies. Many stay at home spouses who have $ still *do* chose to hire assistance, and they often find that managing that assistance is in itself at least a part-time job. A more common example: anyone who has ever tried to hire caregivers to help an elderly parent knows that managing an employee to do something of value to you still creates work---so much work that often family members will chose for a family member to quit their paid employment and take over this responsibility because when something becomes someone's job it is executed differently than when it is someone's familial responsibility. So while I think that outsourcing can be helpful, I think there is work (much of it in the caregivng literature) to suggest that it is not quite a leveler.Xelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233856492765819881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-54948011169001900152012-05-22T10:22:09.397-07:002012-05-22T10:22:09.397-07:00I think the larger point is that, perhaps, you are...I think the larger point is that, perhaps, you are underestimating what a stay-at-home spouse does and are therefore overestimating what can be outsourced. You may be able to order groceries online...but a human being still has to think about what needs to be bought, based on household needs, and order it. And if you are on a budget, how much you can leverage your grocery dollar. You can pay someone to chauffer your child around...but a human being still has to organize and manage the person that provides the service. Discrete task completion and the management of those tasks are really not the same thing at all. When your spouse does them, the management aspect becomes invisible--only when you have to farm it out do you realize what is actually involved. Have you never hired anyone? Or managed a project with multiple employees?Xelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233856492765819881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-27674063440496081142012-05-22T10:07:22.835-07:002012-05-22T10:07:22.835-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Xelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233856492765819881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-6104420485179113762012-05-22T07:17:10.036-07:002012-05-22T07:17:10.036-07:00I love this: "Any capital (be it human or mon...I love this: "Any capital (be it human or monetary) that affords one the choice to pursue one's passion/purpose in life is obviously a privilege"Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-9915904516966108562012-05-22T07:16:29.460-07:002012-05-22T07:16:29.460-07:00I suppose you can't outsource cleaning because...I suppose you can't outsource cleaning because you live in a high-cost area? Or perhaps you have other priorities? I imagine you outsource childcare.Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-88873327888268288612012-05-22T06:44:33.426-07:002012-05-22T06:44:33.426-07:00I guess the question of "privilege" or &...I guess the question of "privilege" or "advantage" is a value-laden one. Any capital (be it human or monetary) that affords one the choice to pursue one's passion/purpose in life is obviously a privilege; however, there is no singular absolute, one-size-fits-all answer to the question. It was important to my husband that I stay home with the kids, so I did--with no regrets (but many frustrations, of course). In hind sight, I was "privileged" to be able to stay home and enjoy all the little moments with my kids (yes even the billion doctor's visits!), but it did come with a cost. I had to defer going to graduate school until my forties, which put me in the "unprivileged" position of trying to start a career at mid life. I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-4106055794484269392012-05-22T06:43:28.045-07:002012-05-22T06:43:28.045-07:00What do you think? Can parents outsource household...<i> What do you think? Can parents outsource household tasks or are there real limits to that? </i><br />I agree with FeMOMhist that there are definitely limits to outsourcing household tasks, the most important one being money. My husband and I are post-docs in neuroscience, with one baby, and there is no way we can afford any type of household outsourcing. We do all of it ourselves on the weekend, which I don't really mind. I would chose my post-doc husband over a stay at home husband any day, because I love that I am able to discuss science with him. I do think it would make an easier life if someone else would stay at home and take care of the baby and a lot of the household stuff, but I guess I can't take another husband ;-)InBabyAttachModehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07895094545069682233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-14747586695047963582012-05-22T05:48:34.700-07:002012-05-22T05:48:34.700-07:00Those are all great points. I did try to distingui...Those are all great points. I did try to distinguish between a well-paid spouse and a low-paid spouse. It is remarkable, though, that a professional wouldn't make enough to pay someone to perform household tasks. (Not to say it's not true; it is just remarkable.)<br /><br />Nevertheless, the comment stream is making it clear that having a stay-at-home spouse can be emotionally easier - so long as the spouse is perfectly happy with their role. <br /><br />Now that I think about it, in our family, we really haven't framed it as my spouse is staying home to take care of our children. Instead, staying at home is the best way for my husband to have time to do the things he loves: make jewelry, play music, and travel. Framing it that way means that he is happy with it. Although, occasionally, he ponders getting a "real" job or opening a "real" business.Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-73857520884358652752012-05-22T05:36:31.799-07:002012-05-22T05:36:31.799-07:00I do not mean my comments to take anything away fr...I do not mean my comments to take anything away from your achievements, which I admire, nor am I sure that the OP was spot on, but what I would note is two things. <br /><br />First, you are assuming that the two working spouses have the income the support the pay-for services you outline. I work, full time, tenured, as an academic in an underpaid position in order to solve our 2-body problem. I love my job and I'm not giving it up. We have $ yes, but we don't live in an extremely cheap area of the country and thus things like housecleaning services, a nanny or chauffeur to drive our kids places (not something that would work with our sort-of special needs kid) etc would mean a fairly significant dent in our income. Furthermore our travel involves visiting family which is where most our discretionary income goes. Things that appear to save time, such as grocery services exist (and I used when my kids were babies) but the time it takes to put the order in online is not negligible. Money can only buy you a very limited amount of time and there are simply some things you cannot pay someone else to do.<br /><br />The second point I'd make, having very good friends in your situation, is the lack of mental stress/time juggling that is reduced/taken away by a SAHS represents something no amount of $ compensates for. Conference travel, research trips, school vacations, a sick child are all quite complicated with two working spouses. <br /><br />All that said, I think that teaching load and research $ from institution probably plays a greater factor in scholarly productivity.feMOMhisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192104351023271207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2175875149329306963.post-28134422610630170332012-05-22T04:56:59.515-07:002012-05-22T04:56:59.515-07:00Congrats on (almost) finishing your PhD. Great tim...Congrats on (almost) finishing your PhD. Great timing with #2 coming along any minute now.<br /><br />Interesting take: It becomes a privilege not to take on hired help. And, it is additional work to find and keep help. I can see that. I suppose that explains why many academics who have full-time working spouses take on the responsibilities themselves instead of outsourcing.Tanya Golash-Bozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299920277816825958noreply@blogger.com